boy oh boy. therapy? already?

With rare exceptions, I'm of the opinion that if you're _aleady_ in therapy before you tie the knot, that it's a terrible sign.

In any case, only time will tell if this is a phase or not. My general advice, though, is that what you see is what you get. He might be able to change some behaviors, but if it's not enough for you, it's not enough. Only you know that.

Well...your bf kinds sound pretty selfish and immature to me. I mean, it hasn't occurred to him to replace his broken phone, or provide his own transportation, or choose social activities/hobbies that you might have an opportunity to participate in? And then there's choosing to spend your engagement ring money on stereo components for himself.

On top of all that, it seems like the issues you're addressing in couples counseling are also related to immaturity and selfishness, as in, he has to be told to take you out to dinner once a week.

Sounds to me like you're in the process of integrating the reality of his behavior into the feelings that existed for him in the past - and coming up emotionally empty. That doesn't surprise me a bit. (BTW, of course HE says he loves YOU - you've put up with him!)

I suspect you're tired of being a mommy to this guy instead of a gf. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like he's going to step up and take responsibility for himself and his behavior (if he did, I doubt he'd only be doing the things your therapist suggested). I'm concerned your future is only going to be a lot more of the same with him...that doesn't seem like a plan for long-term happiness.

OP here - that's the thing. He never gives the impression that he is selfish to anyone else in person, including our therapist - she says that he has problems reading the body language of others and empathizing, but that she can tell over our 10+ sessions from his body language and responses that he does love me. No one I know of has ever called him selfish; if he is asked to do a favor by any of his friends, no matter what it is, he jumps at it. He'll even help people he barely knows. He lends people (including me) small bills all the time. Everybody else thinks he's great.

It's made me think I must be nuts sometimes to think what I do. However, I spend 85% of my time at his place, because he says he misses me if I leave, but then he doesn't include me (except if we watch TV shows he has picked that are streaming from his computer to his TV). If we go to my place and I want/need to use the computer for any length of time at all, he says he wants to go back to his place because he has read all my books and he will only be bored and gets pissy until we do. It's almost as if he is some other person with me than he is with everyone else. Even if he behaves that way in front of his roommate and roommate's girlfriend, they just kind of act like "what did you expect?" or that it's his right to do so. I've tried hinting to him about the possibility he might be a little immature and selfish, but he just gets offended at the idea, especially since they just gave him a major thumbs up at work. I just don't know what to make of this.

I just wanted to say that of course your therapist would never tell him that he is selfish and immature, even if she actually thinks that he is. It is not a therapist's job to put people down, because if they did that the client would get offended and never come back, plus it would not be constructive. I think the fact that he is in counselling with you and making an effort to change says that he does care about you and love you. The fact that you get annoyed by a lot of little things is a symptom of a bigger problem in your relationship. I wouldn't know if your bc is related to the problem, but somehow I doubt it. Especially since you have had many problems with him in the past. I think that you have to evaluate how you feel about him and if marrying him and spending your life with him would make you happy. If not, then it may be time to move on even though it is hard to do. Good luck.

Hey Bekkachan - First, I like the Hello Kitty avatar - my daughter would go nuts for it.

Maybe this is on MY mind today (cause I addressed this in another post), but you said a few things that make me wonder if your bf has Asperger's Syndrome. Here's what makes me suspicious: your counselor says your bf has trouble reading body language and problems with empathy; he'll do almost anything anyone asks him to do (sounds like trouble distinguishing between friends and acquaintances).

Those behaviors are indicative of Asperger's, which is actually a mild (high-functioning) form of autism. It is technically autism, but it's really more of a social disability. (I'm including a link to an article that provides a pretty comprehensive list of behaviors exhibited by people with Asperger's.)

Does your bf having trouble making appropriate eye contact (too much or too little); stand too close to people; doesn't really understand humor; obsessed with one or two subjects; have trouble interpreting facial expressions? These behaviors are all associated with AS.

Your therapist may suspect that your bf has AS, which is why she's so supportive of him...but if he has many of the symptoms above (or at the site below), he really might have AS. And because most people with AS are of above-average intelligence, and it's not a learning disability, he probably would have done just fine in school...so he wouldn't have been diagnosed earlier in life (people probably just thought he was "quirky").

If he does have AS, a diagnosis will at least provide some context to his behavior, and a way to start figuring all this out. Good luck.

http://www.wpanet.org/education/pdf-ed-prog/autism-32-41.pdf

It could very well be your birth control. What are you taking? I took YAZ and had really bad side effects. Then I switched, and still not much better. Those hormones can mess you up for sure! Don't underestimate what you're putting in your body. Since I quit taking it all together, I generally feel better. If you've noticed a change in your feelings towards him since you switched pills, that could definitely be a part of it.

But, I would say he's a major part of why you're "falling out of love with him" too. Buying new stereo stuff instead of a ring? That would be pretty irritating. But then again maybe he's just putting off getting married because he's not completely ready. That doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love you. Or maybe he just wasn't thinking! Guys don't get how things can be offensive sometimes and just go and do them. I don't know. But obviously something needs to change. If he really is going above and beyond to fix things, and it doesn't matter to you, maybe it's time to call it off.

Being in counseling already is kind of surprising after only two years, as well. If you're having the kind of problems where you have to seek someone else's help already, how are you ever going to make a marriage work just between the two of you? Will he ever do things on his own? How would things be right now if you weren't in counseling? There must be something there for both of you if you're willing to go to counseling to save the relationship. But is it enough to build a strong marriage?

I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that he has asperger's. I feel there are lots of guys that are kind to everyone, and are clueless with body language. I would think too, that someone would have diagnosed him by now. But I don't know that much about it.

Good luck, I would see how going off birth control, or going back to your old one makes you feel. As someone who's had problems with it, trust me, it's not far out there to think that could be it.

Moetwhitestar - I don't think I jumped to a conclusion that the OP's bf might have AS...I'm certainly not qualified to make any kind of diagnosis. However, I did suggest she consider it, because her bf's behavior suggests the possibility.

I do know quite a bit about adults with AS, and many, many, many of them are not diagnosed until adulthood (many are never diagnosed). AS is not a learning disability - people with AS typically do very well in school, and often are socially withdrawn through school (because they don't understand the very nature of social interaction the way neuro-typical people do).

Also, many people with AS are excellent mimics, so that they may be able to behave fairly normally...but something about them is not quite right. Even the OP's bf's willingness to go to counseling and the obliging way he implements the therapist's suggestions are suggestive of AS - people with AS really WANT to be told what it is they need to do to keep their mate happy, because they just don't understand how things work when it comes to dating and relationships. And when you tell them what to do, they'll happily do it, cause they're relieved. Unfortunately, they can never take that "next step" - applying what they've learned to come up with their own ways of relating effectively.

People with AS can have successful relationships, but understanding what is within their control and what is beyond their control is essential to make that happen. I don't know if the OP's bf has AS, but it might be worth considering.

Thanks for the compliment Honey! I thought Hello Kitty the superhero/Mexican wrestler was too good to pass up

I read the paper you linked to about Asperger's, and it literally gave me chills with how much my bf fits it. He isn't nearly as extreme as "Anthony", the example case, but his mom told me once that he didn't start speaking until he was about 2 and a half, and only in complete sentences - he never said "mama" or "dada" or anything like that - and this seems to be in line with the speech delays. He was misdiagnosed with ADD at one point, and the paper said that can happen to people with AS as well. He is extremely intelligent (got a 1600 on the SAT) and can memorize just about any factual information he comes across, but he can't "create" anything by himself - if you ask him to put together a birthday present by himself for someone he knows from anything in a store, for example, he will be completely lost. He exhibits very little body language, and has a very distinctive wide walk; he walks very fast, and has trouble slowing down enough to walk normally with other people. There have been many times he gets the wrong impression from conversations, and when I get mad and say that the meaning was obvious in the tone of the person, he says that he can't tell the difference between a normal and an agitated/excited tone. He has a very strict moral code he lives by. He is preoccupied with computers and programming them; he even said to me one time that he likes them because they always make sense and people don't. He especially gets excited if you ask for computer help, I guess because he knows he can fix it. I could go on and on. ALL of these things fit the symptoms in the paper. I seriously wonder if this has ever come up in his life before.
It's completely possible given all his symptoms that he has AS. Thanks for opening my eyes to this, Honey. It's been a big help.

Hi Bekkachan - there's a website called "Wrong Planet" (web link below) that will give you a lot of insight into people living with AS. The site has forums where adults with AS talk about the problems they experience with dating, love, relationships, etc. I think it will help broaden your understanding of what your bf may be going through (there's a lot of heart-breaking stuff there - it's a very difficult disability to live with).

However, people with AS are capable of love, loyalty, etc. just like everyone else, and can be wonderful partners. Knowing that there is a problem, and that there are things that can be done about it, is a huge step in the right direction. I think the next step is to involve a physician who specializes in treating autism - obviously, you need a diagnosis from a trained professional, and your bf's buy-in. Good luck, hon - let me know if you need any additional info.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/